Who knows when the JAR standards started requiring
this much maximum seat weight, and which were some
of the earliest gliders built to this standard?

On 8 Oct, 19:17, Nyal Williams
> wrote:
> Who knows when the JAR standards started requiring
> this much maximum seat weight, and which were some
> of the earliest gliders built to this standard?

I presume it was the weight of the fattest person on the committee ...

Ian

Nyal Williams wrote:
> Who knows when the JAR standards started requiring
> this much maximum seat weight, and which were some
> of the earliest gliders built to this standard?

Actually, JAR 22.25 specifies a *minimum* occupant weight of 110 kg for
single seat and 180 kg for two seat gliders. The manufacturers could
choose to provide for heavier pilots...

Marc

No, that is not correct, Marc; there is no specified
minimum other than that required by the CG location.
110kg is 242 lbs, as you know, and gliders do not
require that the pilot and equipment must meet this
minimum.

The requirement is that the maximum must not be less
than 110kg; it was required of manufacturers to design
at least for this much maximum weight. Earlier gliders,
such as Ka-6 and, apparently, the G-102s will not carry
110kgs. On the other hand, the lowly 1-26 will carry
up to 165lbs, which is about 124.5kg.

I'm looking for early glass gliders that will carry
as much as 110kg.

At 18:42 08 October 2007, Marc Ramsey wrote:
>Nyal Williams wrote:
>> Who knows when the JAR standards started requiring
>> this much maximum seat weight, and which were some
>> of the earliest gliders built to this standard?
>
>Actually, JAR 22.25 specifies a *minimum* occupant
>weight of 110 kg for
>single seat and 180 kg for two seat gliders. The manufacturers
>could
>choose to provide for heavier pilots...
>
>Marc
>

Nyal Williams wrote:
> No, that is not correct, Marc; there is no specified
> minimum other than that required by the CG location.
> 110kg is 242 lbs, as you know, and gliders do not
> require that the pilot and equipment must meet this
> minimum.

Well, that wasn't what I was trying to say.

> The requirement is that the maximum must not be less
> than 110kg; it was required of manufacturers to design
> at least for this much maximum weight.

That is what I was trying to say.

> Earlier gliders,
> such as Ka-6 and, apparently, the G-102s will not carry
> 110kgs. On the other hand, the lowly 1-26 will carry
> up to 165lbs, which is about 124.5kg.
>
> I'm looking for early glass gliders that will carry
> as much as 110kg.

You didn't ask that 8^)

I think you'll find that a number of earlier SZD gliders allow 110 kg or
more, in particular, the Jantar 2.

Marc

On Oct 8, 1:52 pm, Nyal Williams
> wrote:
> No, that is not correct, Marc; there is no specified
> minimum other than that required by the CG location.
> 110kg is 242 lbs, as you know, and gliders do not
> require that the pilot and equipment must meet this
> minimum.
>
> The requirement is that the maximum must not be less
> than 110kg; it was required of manufacturers to design
> at least for this much maximum weight. Earlier gliders,
> such as Ka-6 and, apparently, the G-102s will not carry
> 110kgs. On the other hand, the lowly 1-26 will carry
> up to 165lbs, which is about 124.5kg.
>

Recheck your calcs: 1kg = 2.205 lbs

lb kg
100 45.359
125 56.69875
150 68.0385
175 79.37825
200 90.718
225 102.05775
250 113.3975

243 110

On Oct 8, 12:17 pm, Nyal Williams
> wrote:
> Who knows when the JAR standards started requiring
> this much maximum seat weight, and which were some
> of the earliest gliders built to this standard?

JAA started in 1970. JAR 22 was first published April 1st, 1980, and
I think the min maximum of 110kg was contained therein. However there
was certainly OSTIV discussion preceeding this. Some gliders exceeded
this as max cockpit load was often established by maximum weight of
non-lifting parts and C/G. For example, some Open Cirrus may carry
well over 110kg and still within CG with as much as 350lbs in the
cockpit.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Oct 8, 12:17 pm, Nyal Williams
> > wrote:
>> Who knows when the JAR standards started requiring
>> this much maximum seat weight, and which were some
>> of the earliest gliders built to this standard?
>
> JAA started in 1970. JAR 22 was first published April 1st, 1980, and
> I think the min maximum of 110kg was contained therein. However there
> was certainly OSTIV discussion preceeding this. Some gliders exceeded
> this as max cockpit load was often established by maximum weight of
> non-lifting parts and C/G. For example, some Open Cirrus may carry
> well over 110kg and still within CG with as much as 350lbs in the
> cockpit.
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
It is also worth pointing out that 110kg or 242lbs is the max load at a
peak of 16G [that'll be whilst crashing] that an aircraft harness
[European directive] can tolerate...

Nyal Williams wrote:
>
> I'm looking for early glass gliders that will carry
> as much as 110kg.
>
According to the BGA data sheets, even an H.201 Std Libelle or an H.301
Open Libelle is good for 110 Kg - but would you get a 110kg pilot into
the cockpit?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Martin Gregorie wrote:
> Nyal Williams wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for early glass gliders that will carry
>> as much as 110kg.
>>
> According to the BGA data sheets, even an H.201 Std Libelle or an H.301
> Open Libelle is good for 110 Kg - but would you get a 110kg pilot into
> the cockpit?

I'm just under 6 feet and almost exactly 110 kg with parachute, and I
managed to get into a Libelle once, and even get out again, but as I
alluded to earlier, I couldn't move my arms as my shoulders are slightly
too wide. If my shoulders were narrower (or the cockpit wider near the
top), it would have worked fine.

That didn't quite match the fun of my attempt to fit into a Discus A, it
took two people to pull me out...

Marc

At 17:42 09 October 2007, Marc Ramsey wrote:
>Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> Nyal Williams wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm looking for early glass gliders that will carry
>>> as much as 110kg.
>>>
>> According to the BGA data sheets, even an H.201 Std
>>Libelle or an H.301
>> Open Libelle is good for 110 Kg - but would you get
>>a 110kg pilot into
>> the cockpit?
>
>I'm just under 6 feet and almost exactly 110 kg with
>parachute, and I
>managed to get into a Libelle once, and even get out
>again, but as I
>alluded to earlier, I couldn't move my arms as my shoulders
>are slightly
>too wide. If my shoulders were narrower (or the cockpit
>wider near the
>top), it would have worked fine.
>
>That didn't quite match the fun of my attempt to fit
>into a Discus A, it
>took two people to pull me out...
>
>Marc
>
I'm trying to sort this out for other people. Personally,
I'm 5.6' and about 60kg. I have to put a 16 lb parachute
and 27 lb. of lead in the nose of my Discus B to get
the CG about an inch from the aft limit.

Martin Gregorie skrev:
> Nyal Williams wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for early glass gliders that will carry
>> as much as 110kg.
>>
> According to the BGA data sheets, even an H.201 Std Libelle or an H.301
> Open Libelle is good for 110 Kg - but would you get a 110kg pilot into
> the cockpit?
>
>
CERTAINLY YES!!! Just allow 20 minutes to "float out".


Robert
ASW28-18E RD
118 kg